Advice Needed
Everything is fine. We are just cruising along. Sure, I wish there was more sexuality, teasing and denyiny or whatever you want to call it but there isn't. No matter what a guy does, she has to be involved and have a libido. My wife's libido is pretty low. And I honestly don't think its me or she'd be horny for others or mastrubating and she swears she isn't and I believe her.
So instead of pushing anything sexual I've mellowed a bit, just letting her take the lead. I keep the house clean, serve her coffee on bended knee each morning and ask once or twice a day if there is anything I can do for her. She always responds no. So besides not being pushy, nothing has changed.
Interestingly, she has been asking me if I am O.K. Commenting that I seem distant. And I suppose from her perspective, the change in my behavior would appear that way. I haven't spoken to her about my "backing off from sexuality" because that will only bring the lack of sex in our marriage back to the forfront. What I am trying to do is accept our lack of sex and let the pace of our sexuality be set by her. However, without me being a bit pushy and the fact that she doesn't need or want sex we just don't do anything sexual and it appears that she has noticed this change.
Again, I dont want to bring it up. But I fear if I do nothing, then nothing will happen. So being completely submissive to her lack of desire isn't working but "lightly topping from the bottom" doesn't work.
I feel a bit trapped. Advice anyone (and for God's sake don't tell me to buy her flowers and run a bubble bath.)
posted by whatevershesays @ 11:44 AM
21 comments
21 Comments:
Can I recommend a book.... The Sex Dairies .. it provides interviews and stories of the difference in the libido of men and women and the effect it can have on marriages.... It might be useful to you both... Although no magic bullet .. Good Luck.
Your wife asked you if something is wrong; you said there wasn't. But there is. The only solution is communication. You need to open up to your wife and in without blame or recrimination, explain to her that you are not sexually satisfied. I don't care who's submissive or dominant, both parties in a relationship/marriage are responsible for making the other happy. If you wife loves you (and wants to keep you) she needs to step up and make you happy. Ignoring you is not cool. You should be able to talk with each other and work out some compromise. I doubt you are high maintenance and she needs to know what your needs are -- and meet those needs. Or she should let you meet those needs outside the relationship.
I'm a submissive husband but that does not let my wife off the hook for being a loving and giving partner. We all have difficulty talking about sex and dealing with problems in our relationship. But to keep a relationship happy and healthy we need to be honest and upfront about our feelings and needs.
WSS - I am going to agree with M and J above, but its is so easy just saying you should communicate.
You wil know from my blog just how little I communicate with Jane, but it's not for the want of trying. I have tried talking, with little sucess, I have tried writing letters, albiet probably way to far out there in the early days, I have tried notes, poems, all sorts of different ways to try and get some sort of response or reaction.
The bad news is that Jane still refuses to acknowledge or respond directly. The good news is that she at least treats me to some amazing tease sessions, although denial is not on the agenda for her. In many ways, I have the best of both worlds, experiencing both her control and domination in the bedroom, and at least some expectation that I should both do as she wishes and that pleases her outside the bedroom.
But this isn't helping you, or answering your question.
If, as you say, that your wife is not interested in sex, then maybe she would respond more favourably to a request from you to participate in a little tease and denial. Clearly she must have some idea about how you feel towards her, that you love her, and want to make her happy. She must also see that you are not being entirley satisfied, and I therefore, think that you should or could explain this to her. Maybe you should start out by telling her all the ways in which she pleases you and what makes you happy about being married to her.
Then go onto to the one area, your sex life, where you feel that something is missing, and then how she may, with little effort from herself, satisfy your need or desire to be held under her spell, control, submit to her, whatever you think she will understand the best.
I cant remember if you have said that your wife has ever read up on WLM or similar. How do you think she would react if you suggested that one night a week, for say 30 minutes, if she would tie you up naked on the bed, and just tease and arouse you. During that time she could tell you what she wants you to do over the rest of the week, jobs tasks etc. After half an hour you would be released. After the end of each fourth weekly session you would be allowed to masturbate kneeling in fron of her.
I think what's important here is that you somehow need to make her feel that it is not her fault you feel this way, that she hasn't failed you in someway, but that it is something that she could do for you to please and satisfy your needs, much like the things that you want to do for her that make her happy.
Remind me, but I assume that she doesn't know of your blog.
What do you think? Obviously this maybe to far out there for your wife, but after the first few times I would be surprised if your wife would find this that difficult. Like comunicating the more often you do something the easier it becomes.
M and J and AAT: I agree that you must communicate. I've done that. For 15 years. And yes, regardless of a wlm, it is a partnership but AAT, you miss the point a bit. She won't/can't tease and deny, or it is very difficult, because of the low/non libido. And while it is OK to have someone please you when they really aren't into it, when it (her not really being interested) occurs ALL THE TIME, it just loses any fun for me.
I know this sounds like I'm shooting down your ideas and whining and I'm sorry for that. I do appreciate your input. As far as going outside the marriage, it has been discussed and I don't see it as a viable option right now.
WSS - Shoot away my friend.
I really feel for you. I know what you mean about someone doing something that they are not into themselves, and can appreciate that it would not create for you the same feeling as though your wife were really enjoying it herself, but you have to start somewhere.
Either your wife understands your needs, and should be willing to indulge you just a little, or she is totally devoid of any sympathy or compassion regarding your needs, that sounded a bit harsh, and it wasn't meant to be. Even allowing for a low libido, shouldn’t stop a person fulfilling the needs of the other. After all what your seeking doesn’t even have to involve contact.
I could understand it, if you were asking her to do something that was totally distasteful or demeaning, but you are not. I guess like many other would be submissive husbands, I sometimes fail to see why a wife or partner should find what we seek so difficult to adopt. As long as they understand and feel that your submission is not just all about you, and that your submission can be just as much about your love and adoration for them, then I can't see why they should not want to at least encourage it in ways that they find acceptable.
You always seem to refer to your wife’s low libido as the reason that she won’t indulge your needs. Are you sure that this is this is the real reason?
WSS - I totally understand your situation. Giving up control of sex to someone who is not going to initiate sex is not a recipe for success.
It's not much of a tease & denial game if there is no teasing! And while it may seem counterintuitive, she's not engaging in denial. The Tease & Denial requires the person doing the T&D to be fully engaged in sexual contact, but denying the sub from release. She's not actively engaging in your denial, just instead ignoring you.
Of course, you knew all that. How to change that is a little more difficult.
The way I tried to approach a similar situation is to try to impress upon her that some compromises need to be made to make everyone happy.
I'm sure there is some habit you had that your wife hated that she has tried to "fix". For example, you always leave your dirty dishes in the sink. You leave your used bathroom towel on the bed after showering and she hated it. She probably spent considerable time trying to get you to change that behaivor. Well, explain the same to her. Sit her down and talk about your wants, desires and needs on the frequency of sex, and explain that, to make you happy, you need the more frequency.
Obviously, when presenting this idea to her, don't present it in the negative. Empathize with her, stating that you understand her lack of libido. But then explain your side. Make it clear that you don't expect her to get up to your level, but to at least raise it a little.
Here's something I hope is helpful:
Others are right to say that communication is necessary... but it may not be sufficient - and, moreover, none of this is in your control exclusively. The sad truth is, in life we're not guaranteed to achieve success or attain goals - however righteous or noble. But we can always continue to strive to improve our lot.
I wouldn't sulk, if possible. But you need to start focusing on your own needs instead of subrogating them to what you hope are hers. That doesn't mean that you should become selfish. Just self-interested.
Stop pining away for something you obviously can't have. You're serving her coffee on bended knee each morning, eager to demonstrate to her your submissive side, hoping somehow that all of this excites her... and it doesn't. So what is it that you get out of this little arrangement? If it brings you fulfillment outside of intimacy then serve away. Obviously, something else is missing, right?
You have to admit: it's completely irrational for you and I to perform acts of service for our wives, pretend that this is entirely for their benefit, then sulk that we're not rewarded with desired wifely response... and then repeat the cycle expecting a different result each time. How insane is that?
When my wife asks me how I feel about our sex life, I'm 100% honest. This makes her sad. It often leads to heated arguments, and those arguments never resolve anything. I don't think that's a bad thing. I've got resentment, and I'm not sexually fulfilled. It's not her job to labor to fulfill me, but I'm not going to pretend that all is well, when I'm not happy. I only wish she could be as open and honest with me about whatever needs she may or may not have as I am with her. THAT would be communication.
I feel that I could have written this. As such, I cannot offer advice, for I am in a similar situtation. The way I look at it is that I am married for the better or for the worse. Communication, read that as "confrontation" has been done, and if repeated, becomes like your neighbor's music: just more irritating noise.
She may change in time, but obviously not enough to match your true needs. Maybe your occasional discussion should cover some explicitly sexy situations, and try to detatch it from FLR. That might simplify the situation enough so it is non-confrontational, and not topping from the bottom. It would be just talking about fun. In the mean time nothing stops you from serving here in any way that pleases both of you. It may not be your ideal, then again, nothing becomes or remains ideal long. We do the best we can.
We submissive men are put in an especially difficult bind in these kinds of situations. And I've been there. We want are wives' to take the lead, we want them to be in control and none of us wants to top from the bottom. So when we are not satisfied, It's really hard to express our needs and desires and find fulfillment.
So my "communication can solve everything" answer above is not adequate. I have a female friend in your situation and she gets on my case when I've given her similar advice: "I've TRIED talking to him....He's just not interested in sex..."
I've been reading Dan Savage and listening to his podcast for years and his advice to you would be DTMFA (Dump the motherfucker already). He advises that a life-time partner does not have the right to deny you sex FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE because of a low libido or lack of interest. If a partner wishes to have a monogamous relationship they therefore have the obligation to keep you at least minimally satisfied. That obligation is in fact enshrined in law as you can divorce a partner who will not have sex with you. So Dan says if your partner will not make an effort you have the right (and obligation to yourself) to find sexual satisfaction outside the relationship. And, yes, I believe that applies to us submissive men too.
So WSS, are you up for an ultimatum? That is where I would be if I were in your shoes.
WSS - have a read of my latest entry, entitled "The Missing Piece", I won't be publishing it just yet but when I do it may help you with a possible way forward. Obviously, I don't have enough knowledge about you, your wife, or your situation, or what has happened, or been said between you and your wife in the past, so any suggestions may not work, only you can decide. What helps one couple or works for another, doesn't necessarily mean it will work for all.
I'll be publishing the entry early next week.
You are right, the last thing you need to hear is to give her a bubblebath! The problem seems to be in your and her age, you are very busy people and I believe there are children at home. She has a lot going in her life and as a result sex is unfortunately put towards the back burner. My husband and I have a WLM but the children are married and left home, and that was exactly the time we started our new relationship. It was my husband's idea and I grew to love it and the way he treats me. But if he would have suggested this 25 years ago when I was working full time, raising children and having little time for us, I also would not have gotten into it. Ask yourself, is your wife a good woman and mother? If so, and I suspect she is, then put the WLM idea on hold and try life without it. Maybe too much pressure on her. As your life together grows, time will tell you and her when it will be right to try again. Things will have to slow down for her. For example, now it is just my husband and I, and I make him clean the house twice a week and I walk around in my panties as he does it. I couldn't have done that years ago, never even thought of it, but now it is fun and natural. And now I can deny him sex for very long periods which is good for me as my sex drive has diminished somewhat because of my age. (Although I do love oral sex on me). Love your wife and most of all TALK TO HER! If this bothers you, have a conversation about it, although I am sure it may end up as a arguement so be careful.
Wow! I didn't read all your comments but it looks like you may have gotten alot of advise.
I have to say that I rarely have sex with Mr. Spin. I love him with all my heart and he does have sex with me. He seems to enjoy it when do. But it's so so little.
I hate that I want and need more and to get that I go outside the marriage. I have a boyfriend yes.
I have a date with a bogger coming up very soon. This is the first time in my life I have ever done such a thing. I hate myself and drip with gulit. But I LOVE sex and need sex. I please myself when I find myself home alone.
I'm not telling you to go outside the marriage. I don't find it to be the answer. But I too have tried so hard to talk to him about this with no luck at all.
Good luck to you.
Thanks for coming to visit me I hope to get more time out here soon as work load will be slowing soon until after the Holidays.
Her loss of interest can arise from being too busy, overworked, having an insensitive lover who doesn't know how to make her happy. Men are Venus and women are from Mars. In order to get what you want you must travel to mars and learn the art of communication. Therefore, don't listen to men on this issue. They are as clueless as you are regarding this problem. You are trying to find a way make her give you pleasure. You can guide a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Therefore, you must learn what she needs obtain a growing desire to pleasure you. For example, I can turn from hot to cold in two seconds with one act of disrespect. If a man has a soft body, I'm turned off. Conversely, there are many things that get the chakras spinning.
However, if one is unaware of what those things are then they are as confused as you are. A woman with self-esteem wants to feel loved and respected, not used as a man's toy and denigrated. Where in many men find it an honor to be a woman's sex toy and sexually abused in anyway she chooses. Most men are sluts which are open to anytype sexual encounter anywhere with a woman. We are different. A dominate woman's greatest way to get what she wants is to maintain control of herself. Therefore, you must learn what she wants. It's an empty gesture to ask her if she needs anything when your anal spinscter is throbing. Clearly, she knows you are only asking her that question as a negotion to get your chain yanked; versus doing it because you genuinely love her, want to please her and want her happiness.
The secret is to equate your sexuality with love. Women operate from an emotional base, men operate from a physical base. Therefore, you can put a spell on a man with sensual manipulation, where in a woman needs emotional stimulation to be spell bound. By focusing on emotional stimulation and displaying commitment, she will be lured into your spell. It's the spell bound stage where she will answer your inquiries truthfully and share. When you understand what those needs are, then you can meet those need which will build her desire. Your diligence in listeing and remembering, coupled with your efforts will get your kink satisfied. However, your complaints and grumbling will get the forget it I have a headache response.
I discovered my interest in "masculine submissive" men years ago, by dating a man who touched my soul, listened, and understand my needs. His beautiful face and body coupled with his geniune efforts of thoughtfulness stimuled desire within me. The lust and desire grew so strong, that I was sexing him up morning, noon and night. I had no idea of the toll it took on him, until years later we were talking about something related and he mentioned that he use to be afraid to come home;because of what he was in for.lol..I was aware that I built up his stamina and trained him to control premature ejaculation but I had no idea he was physically taxed by it all. Considerin he is a marathon runner, I was a little surprised.
I've shared this with you to let you know that it's not her, it's you. A woman's libido is often emotionally driven by your commitment, sincere devotion to her, your respect and genuine service to her and your touch. Therefore, coercive manipulation will not get you what you want. However, building her desire through meeting her emotional needs will result in you getting satisfied. Your problem is you don't know what her nees are. You are so blinded by your own needs that you are perplexed and confused as to why you can't get what you want. Moreover, you think asking her directly what she needs when your dick gets hard is effort. Gosh, it's so disingenuous that rightfully she dosn't give you any clues.
Finally, going outside the married to satisfy your sexual needs is a passive aggressive manipulative act of topping. That aggressive insensitive act could garner dire consequences and guarantee her permanent withdrawal.
Black Chicks Rule:
Wow, I really appreciate the time and effort of your response. And for he most part, I respect your point of view. There is without a doubt that some of the issues in our marriage are my fault.
I want to start the next paragraph with. "However". But I won't. I'll give your substantial input more thought. I will take offense that you think my efforts are disengenous. I may be at fault. I may struggle in fullfilling and/or finding all her emotional needs. I am not perfect.
But fuck you if you don't think I've tried. Fuck you because you think I'm doing it to get my rocks off and only ask her when my dick is hard. I entered into a wife led marriage because I thought, and she agreed, that her having more control would help her in her own sexuality.
Just out of curiosity, what advice would you give to her or is it all my fault?
Way to go WSS, you stick up for yourself lol
I completely understand you, and your needs. Which is why I know you have led yourself down this path. Your efforts have led you to having a chain that "ain't gettin yanked". Therefore, when I said you ask only when your "dick is hard", that was a figure of speech just as "getting your rocks off" is a figure of speech. It isn't literal. It means that you are going through the motions of asking her to do things for her, with the expectation that it will motivate her to desire to give you sexual attention. If that were not case, you wouldn't be complaining about her low libido on your blog and having a temper tantrum. My god, you suggested and she agreed to take the lead on your intimacy. She has decided she is not motivated to get her freak on regularly with you. Now you want to disregard her decision, by complaining and asking for advice on how to top to get what you want. How ironic?
Of course, your actions clearly suggests that you are just not into sexual play or obtaining regular sexual gratification at all for that matter. Most people understand that if what you are doing isn't working for you, then try something different instead of doing the same thing expecting different results. Since you can not accept responsibility for your actions and you choose to keep doing the same thing which is the way you want, then consequently you will have to adjust your libido to accept a sexless or lightly sexed marriage. There is nothing wrong with a lightly sexed marriage. Your wife seems fine with it, she seems to be in complete control of her sexuality. Again, the irony of it all, is you only listen to patriarchal advice that coincides with what you want to hear. Therefore, you are perpetuating the outcome. Seems to me you got exactly what you asked for, so why are you complaining??
Could it be that you are having a temper tantrum on here and complaining because it may have been what you asked for, but not the thing you wanted? Have you been worthy of her time and effort to give you the very thing you want? Have you selflessly given of yourself to her and her needs to awaken the kundalini within in her? If so, have you done so consistently enough to build her desire to give you the thing you want? I bet your wife knows that thing you want. The thing you want is maybe on a random night, like Wednesday (hump day), she could tie your hands to the the bed, and hog-ties your nutts, while she sucks your nipples and strokes your cock until it unbearably pulsates. Immediately before you cum she tells you to hold it, as she swings around and sits on your face maneuvering her wet vagina over your heavy breathing mouth slowly pumping your face,while simotaniously squeezing your nutts and whispering babe lick it, kiss my labia, i want your tongue deep inside of me, deeper, deeper, suck my clit, gently, gently, stick your tongue down in there deeper deeper.........while at the same time she is playing lollypop with your dick. If you happen to moan too loud or say you can't hold it, she will take one hand and pinch your perineum and squish your testicles, as the other hand grips your penal shaft amd the thumb covers the urethra opening regulating the pre-cum. Then she whispers shhhhhhhhh be quiet, and don't cum before I do, or baby you will have hell to pay.......hmmm, how many licks does it take to get to the stick.....When she orgasm, she ruins and restricts you from cuming, leaving you wound up. But, at 4AM on friday morning, you awaken to her pulling you briefs down. She climbs ontop and ruffly rides you. When she feels your penis pulsating she squeezes her spincter muscles and commands you to cum; by saying commme. After two days of being wound up, trust me you will cum like a horse.
No, you clearly don't want that. You aren't into private intimate silly sexual play with your wife. Becasue if you were, you wouldn't be so defensive, you would listen, to understand how to get that kind of sexual attention from your wife.
Again, I'd suggest you NOT listen to men, when the issue pertains to a woman's sexual needs. Especially, the "At all Time" comments, because he is egging you on. Consequently, it's listening to the male voice inside and outside of your head, that has gotten you into this unfulfilled state. Now you are all cranky, dissatisfied, confused and plotting against your wife to get her to give you what you want. Dominant women will not allow a puppeteer to manipulate them. Dominant women don't have to yell or scream, their most powerful and effective act is to withdraw. Once you've gotten a taste of the nectar, the absence of it can cause enormous frustration for men who desire it. It appears you are starving. You desire her to yank your chain, in a way that will bring you pleasure. Yet you are unwilling to listen to helpful suggestions on how to awaken her desire to please you. How ironic. Of course most women will have hard limits, but awakening the kundalini within her can make her go against her own religion.lol. Of course she will have to repent on Sunday for the nawty things she does to you on Friday, but we know is god is forgiving..lol..
Seriously, the advice I would give your wife would be to continue communicating the message she is communicating. I would tell her that this is the not 1910, she doesn't have a duty to satisfy her husband's sexual needs if he isn't worthy. I'd tell her a man will stay up all night fucking, sucking and being fucked unconscious, and still happily get up and go to work tired and exhausted. But then he will act like he is too tired to go grocery shopping, or clean the house properly, or clean the leaves out of the gutters etc. I think that men are so sensitive to the needs of their dick, but they are not always sensitive to the needs of their women. A woman's libido is effected by her needs. So she may be disappointed because the kids lunches were not made last week. Well this week, you may roll over to try and get a little quickly and she would be unresponsive, because you were not sensitive to her needs. One of the those needs is for the children to be cared for properly that includes not forgetting their nourishment. Although it may mean nothing to you, it could mean the world to her that her children have lunch. So, even if you asked her and did all these other things she may not really get off that neglectful accident for a month. Which means you could be sexless for a month; because she just isn't in the mood.
In actuality isn't about fault, it's about motivation and desire. There is no fault here. She is not obligation yank or chain, as you are not obligated to yank hers. But it is because you love, respect, honor and cherish her that you should want to be sensitive to her needs and try and understand her and what makes her tick. As she clearly has done so for you. Yet it is your unwillingness to see it from her perspective that is causing you such frustration. You have a blog that called whatevershesays, yet you are in tuned to what ever she says only when it coincides with your needs. That view has caused you frustration and less play time. Frankly, you aren't trying to resolve this issue at all. Funny, you are asking for advice on how best to coerce or manipulate you wife into giving you what you want. If she has an IQ of at least 145 she can see straight through the game you are playing. Therefore, because you are insulting her intelligence, which is a passive form of disrespect, then she should deny you the very thing you desire most. To really drive the point through that she is not be played with, she should use the same passive tactical approach. If she knows that you crave getting your chain yanked, then she should ambivalently deny you of that. By doing so she is allowing you to punish yourself. I am not into bdsm, but I do know that the most intense suffering for a man who needs to be sensually touched and his nutts hog tied, is to ambivalently starve him of the very thing he hungers for. There is no need to argue or be angry, just wait. If he so decides that my needs are not to be considered and or he goes outside the relationship or to a pro, then that will be taken as an act of aggression against me. Essentially, it will be over. No discussion, the end. At that point he will have broken us. Therefore, maintaining an intimate relationship after a premeditated aggressive breech of trust would be considred an assault.
Therefore, I would suggest going back to the vanilla patriarchal dominate relationship. Clearly you don't really want a female led relationship. You simply want your wife to satisfy your kinks and sexual desires. There is nothing wrong with that, but the minotny of constantly servicing you could become a job for her. Therefore, she will do it when she feels like it. Which of course will not be as often as you would like, nor as hot as you would like it.
Black Chicks Rule,
You write well, and you have some valid observations and even conclusions.
Alas, you appear to assume that you have everything figured out. Could it be that you don't?
BCR:
So your advice to her is to keep on doing what she is doing? At what point in marriage, even a wife led one, is it a partnership? Does she need to openly communicate with me?
Lets look at your "making the lunch for the kids example." And lets say I do all the housework, cleaning, alot of the cooking, primary care giver for the kids, etc (I do btw.) And, despite what you may think, I try very hard to connect with her emotionally, spend time with her, just talk. I'll even concede that I'm not very good at the emotional stuff. And lets say I forgot to make the kids lunches.
You are advicating she use a "passive" approach. I'll ask you again; Does a wife have a responsibility our of love of her husband to openly talk to him about her needs?
You bring up some valid points but you are way off base. Husbands and wives need to TALK.
WSS - dont listen to me, I am just a dumb ass guy, with little or no experience of how you might just be feeling. Of course, a relationship is a two way thing, and even if your wife doesnt quite get your wife led thing, that shouldn't stop her telling you what she wants from your realtionship, in the same way that you shouldn't be afraid to explain your needs and desires. After all we are only here for a very short time, you both need to be as happy and enjoy life while you still can. Lifes too short.
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